This is the final piece to the “Female Perpective of the PUA Summit” series. Keep in mind it was originally written as one article and through editing, it was broken down into three parts. If you missed the previous installments, you can read part 1 and part 2 by clicking the links below:
- A Female Perspective of the PUA Summit, pt. 1
- A Female Perspective of the PUA Summit, pt. 2

Orleans from VinDicarlo.com

Speaker number nine, only a few more to go. Orleans spoke about the Vin DiCarlo Kino Escalation ladder. His primary focus was to use physicality and move under the girl’s radar to go from meeting to fucking mostly via touch. When meeting someone, use proper body language and do not touch erogenous zones at first.

He explained that women may back-rationalize their action when it relates to sex. He suggested that when you don’t have sex with a girl at the first opportunity you have, she may think “Oh. I didn’t have sex with him, I must not like him.” To me, that statement is total garbage! Just like guys say that having sex with a girl on the first or second date doesn’t change whether or not they end up dating, not having sex with a guy the first or second time a girl meets him does not mean she doesn’t like him!

If anything, waiting can build sexual tension. For me, if I’m not comfortable sleeping with him (even when I totally want to) and he respects my “no”, I like him more because it tells me that he sees me as a person, not a place to “stick it.” I don’t deny that some girls may think the way Orleans described, but almost every girl I know who truly likes a guy will still like him even if she didn’t end up sleeping with him after the first meeting.

On biological level, Orleans said that men and women are wired to be attracted to each other. “All you have to do is not fuck it up.” He is mostly right but his statement doesn’t explain homosexuals who are wired to be attracted to the same sex. Of course, that is clearly not the demographic he was talking about. However, I don’t believe we are wired to be attracted to everyone. You guys can probably relate to this considering the fact that most of you won’t game a girl unless she is a “7″ or higher.

During his presentation, the thought of rape entered my mind when he discussed how the Kino Escalation Ladder was a way to “take down resistance.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he was advocating rape at all, but “taking down resistance” is a tactical phrase and seems scary when used in conjunction with sex. If my mind went there, I can guarantee you that most women would have also thought about that when they hear about the escalation ladder. The ladder itself didn’t scare me but the idea of “removing last minute resistance” did. I’m paraphrasing below what he explained:

If a girl says “no” when you are trying to remove her shirt, don’t remove it. Instead, work somewhere else on her body and come back to it later. You really don’t need to take off her shirt to have sex with her. Similarly, if she says “no” to sex at that moment, try to arouse her in other areas and try again later.

That explanation gave me the chills because it reminded me of a time when I hung out with a guy I did not know well. I ended up having sex with him even though I didn’t really want to because he was pushy, we were isolated, and I wanted things to be over with so I could go home without making a scene. To be clear, this was not rape but it sure as hell didn’t help me feel good about myself. Today I would have made a scene and could care less about what he or anyone else would have said. My experience with that guy did not help me gain trust in men (obviously, not all men are like that). In another experience, I fell asleep at a guy’s house on the couch and woke up to him touching me. I started crying instead of being outraged. The sad thing is these experiences taught me to be very cautious of men. Men were not trustworthy.

The older I got and the more positive people I modeled myself after, the more confident I became. As I gained strength, my self-esteem rose and I stopped ending up in situations where this would be a problem. However, I know that some women still face this issue. Hopefully, they can find their own strength and confidence to avoid these situations in the future or someone can take them under their wing to teach them. Interacting with the opposite sex can get complicated.

One such complicated scenario is when a girl says “no” while her actions are saying “yes”. When that happens, you have entered a really grey ethical area. Personally, I would hope that every guy stops when a girl says “no”. Make her accountable for what she says. Legally, this makes you (the guy) safer. When I am indecisive about going further with a guy, the fact that he stops builds higher levels of attraction for me. I feel much safer with him the next time. For example, my last boyfriend never pushed me to have sex the first several times we got together. I wasn’t ready. My body wanted to but not my heart or mind. By allowing more comfort, he gave me time to be 100% sure that I wanted to have sex with him. None of the sexual tension was ever lost. If anything, more was created and I was very much into pleasing him.

To verify the legal ramifications of the potential improper use of the escalation ladder and to check if there was such a thing as “accidental rape,” I talked to a third year law-student about the concept of “taking down last minute resistance.” She was not 100% sure on the law but offered some interesting points.

1. Some girls are afraid of being called sluts so they act naive as if they don’t want something but they do. [Editor's Note: This is what Alan Roger Currie calls "Wholesome Pretenders" in his book Mode One. ]
2. She agreed that the ladder may be skeevy and gross if you look at it as manipulation but it’s not rape (check with an actual lawyer to be sure). It isn’t coercion or duress either because there is no threat of force or physical harm.
3. If you get a girl drunk or intoxicated and she is unable to consent due to intoxication, you are in another grey area. It is a lot less grey if she got herself inebriated. Another good reason to never buy a girl you don’t know a drink!

From some of the classes I’ve taken in the past, my understanding is that the law has a hard time recognizing harm when things that are not tangible (tangible refers to something like a threat or actual use of physical force). So if you are talking about emotional damages, the emotionally-harmed person is sometimes legally SOL (Shit Out of Luck) for damages. They usually either have to carry forward their pain in their interactions with others or seek therapy.

When looked from a different light, the escalation ladder seems like an excellent foreplay and arousal guideline for people who have already genuinely connected. The scene I am imagining now is when your girl isn’t feeling sexual for whatever reason but she is still hot for you. From previously establishing a sexual relationship with her, you can tell that she’s kinda into sex that night so you help her feel more attractive and help her feel more attraction to you via your touching. You are arousing her enough for her to want to have sex with you.

Of course, maybe I’m not looking at the ramp the right way and it couldn’t work this way, but I’m sure ya’ll will correct me if I’m wrong. I also think that the ladder would be a great way to increase the sexual tension/attraction when you have built too much comfort.

Before Orleans walked on stage, I found him to be cute but as he kept talking, he looked more and more like a teenage boy to me. I hear that most girls who meet him when he’s on the prowl unequivocally find him attractive. I can see that… but I guess I like guys who seem more manly.

Johnny Wolf

I’ve known Johnny for a few months now. I met him with Khiem at the SoCal Lair meeting in April when Asian Playboy (APB) was talking about interracial dating. APB had a lot of good things to say on overcoming cultural bias (ie. racism) and so does Khiem (Khiem’s approach is different than APB’s and can be applied to sexism as well). On the few times I have hung out with Johnny, I have found him to be a gracious and entertaining host. He is down to earth and easy to talk to and I feel totally comfortable introducing my female friends to him. He is also up for trying new and fun things. He always has something going on in his life which makes him an interesting person.

Johnny mostly talked about his experience: how he is open with his sister and friends about what he is doing with the Seduction Community, and how learning about pick-up has helped him become a more interesting guy. He also reported back on his lay with one of the female entertainers from the night before.

Summit Closure and Aftermath

There were some raffles and a speaker panel to answer the audience’s questions, then it was time for the volunteers to tear things down.

The guy I was working with to take stuff apart was a 22-year old Brit. While I am 7 or 8 years his senior, I still think he was totally hot. If I wasn’t already happy with my boyfriend, I would have been way more into him. He may not have been into me and that’s okay. I found the interaction with him enjoyable. He had a lot of the same qualities that the PUAs (and AFCs) that I connect with have: he was genuinely interesting. He shared some amazingly cool experiences, everything from working on real world science projects to skydiving, to continually improving himself and his ability to get along with others. He was well-spoken. He could think on his feet. We had a lot of common interests and points of view. He was interested as well as interesting. He dressed well. He was healthy in appearance. He was open to new experiences and… he was confident in himself.

I want to make mentions of some of the other PUAs I have kept in contact with after the summit. One I will call JH, whom I first met at the Juggler seminar. He was an impressive young man, both in his drive for self-improvement in an ethical way and also in his good natured view on life. I hope to see more of him in the future. The other, I will call JJ whom I have met up with since the summit. He was also someone I felt connected with. He has a drive to help others the way he has helped himself. He was an amazingly creative fellow. I was touched by the both of them sharing their “before” photos with me. While it is true that their outward appearance had changed somewhat, what was obvious from the expressions in their photos was how their inside had changed too. Today, they both seemed much happier than what was conveyed in their “before” photos.

After everything had been boxed up to Vince Kelvin’s satisfaction, he gave out free DVDs to the volunteers. Afterwards, a group of us (including Khiem, my boyfriend, Crystal & Shrop from Ask Romeo, the Brit, and a bunch of other PUAs) went to eat at Geisha House. Crystal and I were the only females. I didn’t feel weird at all as I was quite used to those ratios and have been for most of my 20’s. I remember having an enjoyable conversation with the gentleman to my left. He was a club promoter in San Diego and talked about how he was able to apply what he had learned from the Community into his professional life, not just into his romantic life.

At the end of dinner, the bill came. Some men began to leave after leaving some money behind. When everything was tallied up, we were short even when a few of us had put in more than our fair share of taxes and tips. I couldn’t help but get angry. The memory of a guy I used to date came up. He used to tell me repeatedly that only when he would go to dinner with a group composed of a lot of women, would he ever have problem getting the total amount of the bill covered, that women were always trying to stiff the group.

I wasn’t screaming or yelling but my tone of voice and my body language changed. I also stopped paying attention to my surroundings which in retrospect, detracted from the experience of other people. Instead, I focused on the problem at hand and on my unresolved anger that did not go away, even after my boyfriend had solved the initial problem. I was mad that this situation was clearly not something that just women did! I was mad that something was attributed to women when it was clearly not just a woman thing! Of course, the person I was still mad at, wasn’t even there to witness how wrong he was. I know this wasn’t my prefered or ideal self but when I have an unresolved hurt mixed with alcohol, I sometimes do the most human thing: over-react. That’s another example of how alcohol detracts from the experiences of our lives. I’m fairly sure that if I had not been drinking, it would have been easier for me to deal with my unresovled feelings in a more graceful manner.

I discovered that a strong and kind leader could really help in diffusing my emotions. Shrop was able to cool me off in less than 30 seconds. He took both of my hands in his, looked me directly in the eyes and very calmly and firmly acknowledged my anger when he explained that this was not a male/female issue. This was a large group at a restaurant issue, no matter who the group was made up of. His calm physical presence and his soothing voice helped me realize what I already knew was true in my core — this really wasn’t a male/female issue but someone important to me in the past had resurfaced in my memory and I carried that frustration into the present moment. In essence, Shrop provided me with a corrective emotional response by being a strong, calm and kind leader who helped me ground and recenter myself. He effectively took me out of anger and out of the past, and brought me back into having a good evening. He left me better than when he found me.

The more I learn about the Community, the more mixed my feelings on it become. Right now, my feeling stands at 75% positive, 10% negative, and 15% uncertain. I had a very positive introduction to the Community via my friend Troy and an education of mostly the good stuff via Khiem. I am lucky that most of the people from the Community that I have let into my life are dynamic, genuine, kind and caring. Up until recently, I was much more inclined to doubt some of the bad press and negative reviews that I’ve read about PUAs but I have to admit that some of it is probably true.

My biggest concern is for the young men who find validation in consistently increasing their number of partners. They seem to only feel alive when they are on the hunt. I am afraid for their happiness and the future of their relationships when I realize that some parts of the Seduction Community seems tailored to encourage men to run on the hedonic treadmill. Filling the “void” with an endless stream of women will not help a person create a long-term satisfying life. It increases the risk of contracting an STD and becoming a vector for diseases, or bringing a child into the world without two parents commited to the child’s best interest. The skills the Community teaches might be better utilized as an adjunct to a achieving or maintaining an already enjoyable purposeful life, rather than the implementation of efficient social and dating behaviors as the sole center of that life.

Men are important. I liked all the messages I heard about confidence and honesty. I think women could benefit from knowing these things too. Many of the PUA teachings are transferable to women — for example, how to be a good conversationalist! Some women out there are painfully boring. They could be really interesting but they have no idea how to be dynamic or engaging. Overall, I think the Community has a lot to offer the guys who are good at heart and who need a guiding hand on becoming a genuine, confident man so they can connect better with amazing women and people. However, I can also see how the culture of the Community could prey on the insecurities and sexual craving of men to permeate dogma that may be unhealthy for the long-term happiness of these men.

Like many professions, the Community teaches tools. For example, law school teaches lawyers how to advocate for their clients in the legal system through the use of special language and protocols. Lawyers can be helpful or harmful. Sometimes they’re neither. Any tool can be used to help or harm, just like guns can be used for hunting for food, self-defense, equilization of strength and murder.

Pick-up teaches men how to present themselves to the world in a way that helps them convey the incredible person they are on the inside but it can also teach them how to falsely fill the void with pussy. They learn to discard old habits that are remnants of their past selves and through their self-improvement journey, men get to recognize their own attractiveness so they can become more confident in their skills to interact with others. Overall, I think there is a lot to gain from learning things in the Community but sometimes, I would encourage men to take a step back to think for themselves. Is what you are learning healthy and does it align with your purpose or lifestyle?

Hmm, I just got a new idea. I should write a post called “10 Reasons to Become a Pick-Up Artist That Aren’t About Sex.” Yeah! Maybe I will!

If you’ve missed part 1 of my “A Female Perspective of the PUA Summit” series, go read it here.

I went to lunch with Khiem, Adam, Amanda (Adam’s girlfriend), Tung, Carly (Tung’s girlfriend) and three other guys. In the middle of Hooters, one topic came up to which we came to a resounding agreement: Pick-Up Artist and Seduction Community were t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e names for what some of the guys do. A lot of the things these guys teach has more to do with improving your social skills, building up your confidence and making yourself a more interesting, socially-engaging and dynamic person than purely picking-up women.

We were supposed to be back at 2:15 p.m. if we didn’t want to miss the next speaker but we all decided to be late. When we walked back in the room, I saw David Wygant and gave him a warm hug hello. I had met him a few times before while out with Khiem. He was the same energetic guy that I remembered from the Viceroy where I first saw him speak and a party we both attended. He was going to speak soon, right after Grungey.

Grungey was giving tips for doing day game but since I was largely absent from his talk, I can’t give a good summary now.

David Wygant

I first met David at a meet and greet event in Santa Monica. I remember having the same feeling with him that I had with Wayne “Juggler” Elise. When I saw him speak that first night, I was like “Who is this guy?” in some kind of weird disbelief. He wasn’t the peacock I had expected him to be but as he continued speaking, my reaction changed to “Who is this guy?” in a more curious and attracted kind of way.

At the summit, David was the most energetic and powerful speaker. He obviously demonstrated a lot of skill speaking to an audience. He reminded me of motivational speakers like Tony Robbins.

David started out by telling the audience that “There is no such thing as picking up women.” Everything you do is about being social, sociable and engaging. In order to do this, you must be genuinely interesting, interested and focused on who you are talking to. Like Adam Lyons, he teaches that making friends wherever you go is beneficial. You should talk to everyone. You do not want to be the hunter or the carnival act.

One thing that was very “David” was his stand on women and alcohol mixed together:

The best women to meet are not drunk.

David himself rarely drinks. He believes that alcohol interferes with making a genuine connection with the other person. I have to agree. I learned from experience that not drinking the first few times I meet a guy allows me to more likely figure out whether he and I are a good match.

David urged guys to get to know the girl without being scripted. He told guys to be attractive.

If you want to meet amazing women, be amazing. Don’t focus on getting laid. Make the conversation about the other person. Stimulate her mind. Be challenging in a friendly way.

I know this is harder than it sounds. To me, being happy is the most attractive way to be. If you don’t know how to “be attractive”, then be happy. Isn’t that what pick-up is for: to teach guys how to be more attractive?

On sex, David explained that there was no reason and no magic words that would make a woman have sex with you. Women will sleep with you when they are ready. Sex with a woman on the first night you meet her usually sucks. When you wait until she is ready, the sex is better. “It will be amazing!” There is a higher way to connect with people. “Weak, is convincing a girl to sleep with you.”

On phone game, David encouraged guys not to abide by the three-day waiting rule. If you like her, call her. When you wait, you lose momentum. By being different from the other guys, she’ll find you more attractive. Don’t get caught up in the interaction mechanics. Be a leader.

David re-emphasized the importance of talking to everyone and to consider each person as a potential friend.

How do you know you like someone you don’t know?

Like the other speakers, he also stated that you can only control what you do.

He also addressed the concept of “being on.”

You don’t have to be “on” all the time. Pick the places and times that are best for you to be “on”. Allow yourself to fail. Being good with women is not going to happen overnight. Be in the moment.

I think being in the moment is an important concept — we cannot will our future or past to be different. The only thing we can do is be in the moment as ourselves. Who we are from moment to moment will change our future over time in our favor as long as we are true to ourselves. I also believe that enjoying every moment, finding a silver lining when we can, will help us be happier people.

He then talked about fear.

Fake fear is all in your head. Real fear is life threatening. Fake fear is not knowing what to say… or worse, not remembering what you said to whom. There is a simple remedy for that: tell the truth, then you don’t have to remember a thing.

From his presentation, I really liked what David had to say. He is very genuine and confident. I also like that he coaches women! From reading his blog, I don’ t always agree with everything. There are a lot of things that I don’t agree with in the Community, even though I don’t always say it.

Eternal and Gravity from RISE (Rapid Intimacy Social Education)

During David’s speech, one of the RISE guys asked me if I’d be willing to volunteer to help them with a dance game. I would be asked to dance on stage with an audience member, then I would dance with the speaker and finally talk about my feelings from dancing with them. I accepted. That sounded fun.

I will refer to Eternal and Gravity collectively as “he” or “they” since I don’t remember which guy was which. Helpers were passing out a handout that is on their website. They started talking about same day Fuck-Close (F-Close). I found that ironic, considering that David Wygant just spoke about how sex the first time you meet a woman is not as good as sex that you have after you take time to know her!

I had fairly mixed feelings about the RISE guys’ material. Some of it was good but some of it seemed manipulative and hurtful.

The good: they advocated to “BE YOURSELF.” What I really like was that they clarified how being yourself did not mean “drink beer in your underwear at home in your mother’s basement.” At the same time, “Be yourself” also meant you DON’T have to put on a character to become “Ladies’ Man.” What “be yourself” really meant was:

Put your best foot forward. Be the best you you can be. It means breaking the habits of bad body language and learning body language habits that help you demonstrate who you really are.

They went on to explain how changing your body language can help you become more of the confident person you want to be. Specifically, how you feel about yourself is going to naturally change the way you behave. I totally agree with that. Irrespective of the pick-up context, people really can change their mood/feelings with changes to behavior!

The other thing they pointed out was the difference between actors and artists. “Actors imitate. Artists create” (in truth, actors can do both, but that wouldn’t help their point). The point they were making is that if you learn a talent, don’t exercise it like someone else — make it your own. I personally think the difference they were talking about was very subtle. In the same way there is a difference between playing piano like Rachmaninoff and playing the piano brilliantly like you, both require taking the time to learn and practice. It’s a skill to hone unless you’re a natural and even naturals can improve.

What I felt more or less neutral about was:

The ultimate demonstration of your value to society is that you have your life, and you don’t care what others think, but this is not arrogance.

I happen to not agree with it. It doesn’t mean the statement is bad. My quibble is semantic because as you know, the language you use is important for structuring your reality or frame. “Demonstrating” anything carries the connotation that you make a point to show it to others. This implies that you actually care about what others think (which is a contradiction of what they are trying to say). IMHO, there is nothing wrong with taking other opinions into consideration, as long as you consider yourself first. I prefer Thundercat’s take of being good enough or not good enough. If you are good enough for you, it really doesn’t matter what others think. And yes, this isn’t about arrogance.

The stuff that creeped me out was:

The most powerful method of attraction is to allow someone to enjoy the interaction, then pull back a little, just out of their reach, not unattainable but out of reach and then go back.

They call this “tease and please.” I call this a form of “operant conditioning” by use of “intermittent reinforcement.” I don’t find this to necessarily relate to attraction. This is more about conditioning. The bad part for me was to think that when the “teaser and pleaser” does it intentionally, you have premeditation. The premeditation and the strategizing is what made it feel kind of creepy.

On kino, Eternal and Gravity advocated inappropriate touching followed by joking it off. For example, he told a story where he saw a girl who wore a shirt that said “I Love Lawyers” at the club. He walked up to her and touched the “love” and “lawyers” (on the top of the breast area) then said “No you don’t, you love money.” As a woman, I would feel uncomfortable with some random guy coming up to me and touching me in the chest area. I understand that context is important in determining what works or not. In his situation, it seemed it worked out okay, but to condone touching girls like that… ugh. Some poor guy who is trying it out might try it “wrong” and may get in deep trouble for it.

They continued with negging and backhanded compliments. At this point, I wrote in my notes: “I feel like I am in the second grade: boring.” On one hand, I can see how a neg works. However, if a neg isn’t actually an insult, then it has a terrible name. On the other hand, I hear negs are supposed to “knock a girl off her pedestal.” The one-up, one-down game is actually not going to make a person feel better about him/herself (there will always be someone “above” and “below” you). It strikes me that having a girl on a pedestal is all a matter of your very own perception. If you put a girl on a pedestal, it tells me that you don’t value yourself enough which creates the need in you to knock someone else down. This is a self-esteem issue and the constant need to knock someone down to boost yourself is unhealthy. I prefer the philosophy laid out in this article by theApproach on Mutual Value Escalation, which is also written about in the Transition to Natural Game, part 2, although I have some quibbles with that article too.

Let me share a personal story: I used to live with a roommate that was getting his Ph.D. in philosophy at one of the best schools in CA. Some of my friends thought he was very arrogant; however he never struck me as arrogant. I found out that the people who thought my roommate was arrogant or stuck-up actually felt insecure, on some level, about their own accomplishments in the area that he excelled at. Because of their insecurities, they had to knock him down by framing him as arrogant.

The RISE guys explained that backhanded compliments are not meant to hurt so they won’t if you don’t mean any harm. Wait, what? If I don’t intend to hurt someone’s feelings, I won’t? Wow… all those people I’ve accidentally said idiotic, yet hurtful things to before are WRONG for feeling hurt?!? WRONG I SAY. What a relief! (yes, that was sarcasm). More seriously, I wondered at this point if the RISE guys and I both learned the SAME English. In my lexicon, a back-handed compliment is meant to hurt and belittle someone in a “clever” way.

Later on, they talked about using guilt and fear tactics. On step VI of their hand out, they tell guys to foreshadow regret. Create in her the sense that if she does not want to do something with you, she may never get another chance to be with someone like you or anyone as great as you. When I heard that, my question was: how do you feel about people who are trying to sell you something you aren’t sure that you want? I know they are trying to do their job but I find them personally annoying. For me, if that’s how a guy wants to play, he can play with another girl. If the girl (or you) is genuinely busy and you want to see her, suggest alternative times. The girl may do the same. That’s what I do when I am busy. Do not try to convince me to see you or like you. I will find you even less attractive.

However, the concept of regret is not without merit. If you are truly a guy who lead a life you absolutely love, the kind of life with lots of friends and social engagements which wouldn’t allow you the flexible schedule to meet anyone at anytime they wanted, then letting the other person know that it may be difficult to have another opportunity to meet you is acceptable. A person who has a full life is complete by themselves and THAT is attractive. I felt the RISE guys were trying to imitate such a person, instead of truly creating that kind of life. That was the opposite of what they advocated earlier. It’s really about authenticity and genuineness, not imitation.

Then, they did the dance demonstration. If I had to pick one thing to learn from these guys, this would be it. The “dance game” seemed the most important and valuable out of their presentation.

By the time I got on stage, I didn’t like the presenter very much, but I set aside my feelings because I already agreed to help. I was going to dance with a member of the audience for about 30 seconds first, then I would dance with him. Each time, I was to honestly tell them how I felt.

The music was on. I was dancing with the audience member. I don’t dance well and neither can he. It’s awkward and uncomfortable. I’m just not into it. Being into it has nothing to do with the guy. It has more to do with with dancing in front of an audience to music I don’t usually dance to. Usually, I’d be okay if I was by myself, with another girl or with a partner who wasn’t trying to touch me. When the guy approached me for the dance, he got closer with his whole body. My normal reaction was to move away. The RISE guy told me to just dance with the guy. While dancing, my discomfort was growing exponentially. I really wanted to stop. I felt relieved when the music stopped. If you want a laugh, buy the video when it comes out. I certainly looked funny!

Now it was time for the RISE guy. He stepped in a little closer then offered me his hand. The hand was a comforting gesture. (1) It wasn’t invading my personal space and (2) it suggested that he knew what he was doing. He led the dance in a more formal way, in a very strong yet not controlling way. He clearly had taken dance classes before. His confidence in his dancing skill and his ability to lead me really helped me feel more comfortable on stage. I had a better time and it was because of him. I felt like his confidence blanketed me. I was somehow auto-magically more comfortable about what I was doing on-stage and I disliked him a lot less. In my opinion, dancing and particularly leading is a skill that is very useful to a guy who wants to better interact with women. Knowing what he’s doing and being able to make the woman look good in doing so definitely makes the man more attractive.

During the RISE’s presentation, two guys came and talked to me. One asked if (1) I was a reporter [no], (2) who I was here with [Johnny and Khiem] and (3) why I was taking notes [because I wanted to remember as acurately as I could and I think some of this stuff is transferable to women]. I later found out one of those guys was Camerone Teone. I talked to him during break, and he told me to go read his article The Freedom to Exist which I think is brilliant. Men and women could very much benefit from reading it.

I think I wrote long enough for today. I’ll finish part 3 over the weekend. Linking to Cameron Teone’s article also seems like a good place to stop because I want to end my part 2 on a positive note. That’s something pleasant for you to chew on before the weekend begins.

Hey guys, this is RadiantSun. I didn’t meant to make you guys wait for me. I know Khiem said I’d post my entry the day after his but he and I had to make sure you guys would really get something out of my writing… so without further ado, here’s part one of my perspective of the Los Angeles PUA Summit 2007.

Have you ever woken up and felt a little uncomfortable with what you did the day before?

That’s how I felt the morning after the PUA Summit. I worked there as a volunteer because I was interested in learning about what the Seduction Community was teaching men and I wanted to help out my friend Johnny Wolf, whom I’ve met through Khiem. My biggest discomfort came from the fact that I felt I was being publicly too supportive and I didn’t make my voice and my real opinions be heard enough when I disagreed.

When I went, I really wanted to like every speaker but in truth, it wasn’t the case. I liked some of the speakers, from the message they had, to how they presented themselves, their ideas, their goals, and their hopes for other members of the Community but with some other ones, I felt like I was in second grade. I was bored and I thought that any woman with self-esteem would not fall for that crap.

I understand that some of the techniques (even if it’s crap) obviously work for some men and not others. It also works on some women and not others, but some of the “crap” that seems to work plays on the fact that some (younger) women really aren’t sure about themselves. They don’t know what they want, especially with men and it doesn’t matter if they are a bitch or not. Is it what you guys want to play with? The self-assurance that a confident man (not boy) would want from a high quality woman doesn’t usually come until the woman reaches her late 20’s, early 30’s or later, rarely earlier. Unfortunately, sometimes it never happens.

I also know that some of the techniques taught are designed to knock-out a woman’s “bitch shield,” but have you ever stop to consider why we even have those in the first place? We want to meet real, genuine and masculine men. We have bitch shields to protect us from being hurt. If you were being real with us, we wouldn’t need our bitch shield up.

Another big concern for me was the issue of safer sex. Women love sex just as much as men, maybe more, but I was worried to note that the use of condoms was only mentioned once. It was only mentioned in the Vin DiCarlo Escalation Ladder and it wasn’t even talked about in a manner to remind men to practice safer sex. Instead, “Do you want me to get the condom?” was used to bypass the woman’s resistance in removing her panties when she’s already being aroused by your foreplay skills. If you’re having sex, please don’t be a disease vector too!

STDs, testing, and prevention was never discussed. I had a one-on-one conversation with a guy who seemed concerned with ethical sexual behavior. What I shared with him are two guidelines that I think will help:

1. Get tested regularly, for everything. Get vaccinated for HPV (difficult to find a place that will vaccinate men but they exist, call aim-med) and hepatitis (any GP Dr.)
2. Be honest with the type of relationship you want. There are many women who don’t want a relationship and just want sex. If that’s all you want, those women are great matches. If you know you are not going to marry the girl or don’t want to be monogamous with her, tell her upfront so that she is free to make her own decisions about what is right for her. It may surprise you but there are quite a few young women who are comfortable with that kind of thing.

I really feel that the risky parts of sex got glossed over, and that’s unfair to you guys and the girls you are having sex with.

Now, let’s talk about the speakers. I’m paraphrasing a lot, so not everything may be 100% accurate.

The second person I met at the summit was Vince Kelvin. I had a hard time taking Vince seriously. He dressed very peacock-ish (aka way over the top, especially for his age). His attire didn’t provide him the credibility or high value status that I expected, which interfered with my ability to respect him. However, since he was one of the event organizer, I followed his instructions. Overall, the summit was very well organized but to me, Vince seemed disorganized when coordinating the volunteers… probably because he was always scrambling to get the next thing accomplished. I think it worked well anyway because the volunteers were all smart people to begin with.

Johnny’s sister was also a volunteer. I really liked her. I felt more comfortable knowing that there was another intelligent female who was in support of what the Community had to teach. It was also cool for me to see siblings helping each other out.

Johnny Soporno

The first speaker I heard was Johnny Soporno. He was an older man, somewhat round, and had thinning hair. He talked about the evolution of the concept of property, farming, plots of land, control, etc. He explained that when you own something and you cannot walk away from it, it owns you too. For example, if you own a house and you can’t walk away from it, you become slave to it as it owns you too. One of the most important things I think he said was:

Women are not property. You do not own them. They do not own you. This does not mean we do not want to be together but if we are together, it is out of choice, not obligation.

Violet Marcell, his girlfriend, was on stage with him but she was not his only woman. Johnny Soporno is explicitly honest with every woman he is with. He is not a one woman man and has two rules for himself:
1) that he must not be the only cock a woman is getting
2) I forgot the other one but I remember feeling like it was reasonable.

I can see that he is a very sexually open person even though he dresses kind of like one of my geek friends. I surprisingly didn’t have a problem with anything I heard him say. He came from a place of deep honesty with who he was and with what his intentions were. He is 100% okay with a girl not being interested in what he has to offer. He is very non-needy and that made him attractive. He also didn’t like to judge women by calling them sluts when they are just sexually open and free. You shouldn’t have to call any woman a slut, whether you sleep with them or not. This only hurts you in the long run.

I talked to him a little off-stage to ask his opinion on a past relationship. The guy told me I could see other men as long as I didn’t tell him about it because he was going to do the same. I wasn’t sure how to take that. I didn’t want to do anything I couldn’t talk about so I never slept with anyone else. That obviously didn’t work for me long term. Johnny Soporno compared his behavior to the “Gays in the Military: don’t ask, don’t tell” philosophy. In his opinion, it doesn’t work. It comes from the place of “I don’t care as long as I don’t know” and that is dishonest, particularly to yourself. It always seemed a little chicken-shit to me, it was nice to have confirmation from an intelligent male who lived this lifestyle and had clearly put a lot of thought into how to make it work optimally. He also gave me a link to his site, Seductive Reasoning. I will watch it this weekend.

Adam Lyons

He had a lot of energy, and was a young wiry, well-groomed and normally dressed guy. He intentionally referred to himself as an AFC. His modesty made him charming. His main idea was: if you go to a club, meet and be friendly with everyone. Getting social proof builds comfort automagically ahead of time for you. People notice you the same way they notice a hot girl being approached by many men. They will look at you, smile at you and get curious about you as you are walking around the room building your value.

Like a true socialite, he said:

Don’t sleep with the first girl you meet. You might like her friend more.

I have found this to be true for myself as well. I like to spend time getting to know a guy and his friends because one of his friends may be a better match for me, and one of my friends may be a better match for him. I’ve also found remaining friends is a good way to too. For example, one of my ex-boyfriend’s ex-girlfriend whom I became friends with is now passionately involved with one of my ex-boyfriends.

Adam had an amazingly hot and friendly girlfriend. I asked him:

Me: What do you like about her?
Him: She challenges me. There are times I just can’t stand her. She gets on my nerves but when I tell her something, she doesn’t always take it. She challenges me right back.

It sounds like they are both very confident in themselves. I could definitely see the loving and fun chemistry between them.

I really liked Adam’s energy. He encourages people to be socially dynamic and engaging which is so important if you want to become that fun, loving guy. His confidence and his love for having fun and connecting people really made him stand out.

Tung from Social Relations Institute

I think Tung was my favorite speaker for the content of his speech… even though he has room to grow as a presenter. He was an Asian guy, normally yet fashionably dressed. His overall message was: be well-intentioned.

“Be confident in who you are.”, he said. “If you are a likable social person, people will like you. Treat others the way you wish to be treated.” I’d like to add that if you treat yourself like crap, you aren’t going to be able to treat others well. Being well-intentioned, to me, means treating each other with respect and the way to respect a woman is different than the way you give a man respect. You don’t have to treat each other the same. It is about approaching the other person without stepping on their masculinity or femininity.

One thing that made Tung different from the other speakers was his opinion on approach anxiety. Anxiety is a good thing. The more anxiety you feel about approaching a girl, the more you know you like her — pay attention to that. It’s good! Tung was taking an existential position with this idea and I could really relate to it. Anxiety is in fact natural and has a place in our lives. We can in fact work with it, rather than having it work against us.

That Tung conveyed a sense of genuine caring both for his students and for the women he engaged with made him very attractive.

ThunderCat

ThunderCat was a heavy set bald guy. From appearance alone, you would not have thought he was a master PUA. However, as he spoke with calm confidence, I found him attractive too. He carried some very powerful and important messages that I think men AND women could benefit from:

Don’t be ashamed of being male (or female!). Be confident. Love yourself. Women are people too (so are men!).

His take on approach anxiety came at an angle I had never thought of before, and it made perfect sense. The number one reason guys are afraid of hot women is not because of fear of rejection. We get rejected everyday. We ask a friend to the movies, he/she says “no.” We ask if the restaurant we are at has steak, they say “no, we’re out.” It’s no big deal. We in fact get rejected daily. Rejection is not what we are afraid of. Instead, we are afraid of judgment.

People are naturally judgmental. When you judge someone, the concept of reciprocity works somewhere in the back of your brain so you end afraid of the judgment that may come from the other person and that will come from yourself. When you judge them positively, you put them on a pedestal so you become afraid of the judgment you give yourself for not attracting them.

You are your own worst critic. You know your flaws best but no one else really knows them but you. This concept is something I’ve written about before and trust me guys, you are not alone in having a yapping inner critic. Thundercat’s advice works for men and women: stop being so JUDGMENTAL of yourself and others. Many of the guys in the PUA Community rate women on a 1-10 scale. Thundercat prefers his own scale: is she “good enough” or “not good enough”? That’s it. You shouldn’t judge your friends on how hot their partners are either. If they are happy, who cares?

Another salient point he made was that:

When you are comfortable with negative emotion, you train yourself to accept that and so when positive emotion comes your way, it seems out of place.

On using trickery and deceit in seduction, he said:

You can trick but it is only in the moment and in the long run, it will cost you when she discovers you aren’t you. Women are human beings, they have free will and you cannot make someone do anything they didn’t want to do, even if you trick them in the moment. You can only control you. You can’t control others. When you are a positive non-judgmental person, women (people) want to naturally be with you.

The only point I want to quibble with is: “You cannot make someone do anything they didn’t want to do, even if you trick them in the moment.” By virtue of tricking someone, you are providing a false context and you are taking away their ability to make a fully informed decision. By hiding information or misleading them, they can’t soundly choose if they want to do something or not.

On the other hand, I agree with his point that trickery is not doing you any favors. I think that if a person feels the need to trick someone into liking them, it implies that they find flaws or failings within themselves and feel they aren’t good enough for the other person. This proves that the person is not truly confident in him/herself. It tells me their inner critic is still sitting on a shoulder shouting down their value and pushing away happiness. It could also be the person is a scumbag. It happens and they will get their comeuppance eventually.

puaL

He was dressed in a trendy way with some black eyeliner, which always looks funny to me when it’s on anyone who isn’t a goth kid. In time, I’m sure I’ll get used to men wearing make up. I like that men can now have that burden too.

puaL was the first speaker who took me a while to warm up to. His opening joke rubbed me the wrong way. While dining at a restaurant, his beautiful girlfriend leaned over and told him “Paul, I’m pregnant.” He then stood up, picked her up and punched her in the stomach. Sorry guys, I don’t find that funny. Yes, it is a “joke” but it is a cheap joke. I’m sure he didn’t mean it this way but a joke that tacitly condone violence against women (or anyone) is not humorous to me. A lot of these kinds of jokes are ubiquitous in our culture, and often slip by unnoticed. You may get a few laughs but it’s just inappropriate. I don’t remember what he said next because I was too busy being appalled.

His story would have been the perfect opportunity to remind guys of the consequence of condomless sex or the incorrect use of condoms (which can also make a girl pregnant) but since he didn’t, I will again. A girl being “on the pill” does not guarantee that she is 100% safe from pregnancy or STDs, especially if she is also taking antibiotics or St. John’s Wart. I know that some girls will lie to you and as many of you can imagine, end up knocked up! Remember that the pill has ZERO protection against STDs. If you don’t know how to put on a condom properly or remove it properly, learn how here.

When I put my gut reaction aside and listen to his content without being emotionally charged, I admit that puaL has a some good messages. Don’t be ashamed of what you want or who you are. If you want to tell a pretty girl she is pretty, do it. For example, “I noticed you. You’re very pretty and I wanted to tell you that today.”

He also talked about beliefs. You should examine where your beliefs come from. Are they really yours?

He then reaffirmed like many other speakers that the most seductive thing you can do is to be 100% you. Being unique and special makes you infinitely valuable. This is good advice. By being 100% you, you will attract someone that is a good match for you.

He proceeded to demonstrate how to successfully approach women on the streets, even when you are using a pick-up line. As I walked across the stage, he addressed me with: “If you were a booger, I’d pick you first. I just wanted you to know that.” I have to confess. It made me laugh. It was a good opener just because it was so absurd but his use of a pick-up line wasn’t what made me laugh. It was how he said it. If you are a PUA worth your salt, you should already know how tonality, body language, eye contact all convey messages beyond the spoken word. His non-verbal communication was attractive.

This slightly strange looking guy, tall, thin and wiry with trendy clothes, messy hair and smeared eyeliner knew how to carry himself with confidence. It’s hard to explain. Some things can’t be explained with words. Confidence is something you have to see in action to get it. If you looked at all the things he demonstrated on stage and removed that air of confidence from him, everything would look really silly.

Basically, “learn the PUA tools, so you can drop them. Trust yourself”, he said. A wise professor once taught me that when you over learn something, you make the conscious unconscious. It is the last step of the four steps to competence which are:

1. unconscious incompetence
2. conscious incompetence
3. conscious competence
4. unconscious competence

Three other things I liked from puaL’s presentation was:

1. People don’t want to be dicks or bitches.
2. This is not about getting laid, that’s a side benefit.
3. People move nations by communication.

We broke out for lunch… and I will post part two and part three soon.